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Subject: 'Higher Education', Bastion of Marxist Dinosaurs
Posted by: Baldwin
- [4261155] Mon, Nov 11, 2002, 21:34
Xaviers Veteran's Day Message...well not officially mind you but this is all too typical:
First the setup...A cadet at The Air Force Academy respectfully asked Xavier Professor Peter Kirstein along with representatives from a wide range of colleges and universities for help advertising a political forum.
Here is Peter Kirstein's reply...
From: Peter Kirstein
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:46 PM
To: Kurpiel Robert C4C CS26
Subject: Re: Academy Assembly
You are a disgrace to this country and I am furious you would even think I would support you and your aggressive baby killing tactics of collateral damage. Help you recruit. Who, top guns to reign death and destruction upon nonwhite peoples throughout the world? Are you serious sir? Resign your commission and serve your country with honour.
No war, no air force cowards who bomb countries with AAA, without possibility of retaliation. You are worse than the snipers. You are imperialists who are turning the whole damn world against us. September 11 can be blamed in part for what you and your cohorts have done to Palestinians, the VC, the Serbs, a retreating army at Basra.
You are unworthy of my support.
Peter N. Kirstein
Professor of History
Saint Xavier University.
Good of him to take time off from his agressive support of the murder of a million babies a year to set this 'baby killer' straight.
And that folks is what the leftist takeover of the campus in the sixties has brought us.
Note the left handed apology now in Peter N. Kirstein's homepage. It used to include a picture of Karl Marx' headstone I am told.
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| 117 | Mattinglyinthehall
Dude
ID: 01629107
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 13:44
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My apologies - "we could of won the war in weeks" - is the quote. Ambiguous, possibly less than 6 weeks.
Will you claim now that you meant 450 weeks?
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| 118 | Perm Dude
ID: 14352118
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 14:06
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Nixon had to bomb Cambodia secretly
Man, talk about revisionist history. The Commander in Chief had to break the law because war protesters and the previous Administration forced him to?
I thought you guys were all about personal responsibility? Seems like you are throwing a lot of blame around in the hopes no one will notice you're not stepping up to the plate.
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| 119 | truthsabitchinnit
ID: 4311112
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 14:17
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It was so bad with Left's refusal to let us win the war, that Nixon had to bomb Cambodia secretly.
I'm gonna get drunk and get this little gem here tattooed on my forehead. Will post a photo later.
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| 120 | Perm Dude
ID: 14352118
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 14:22
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Heh. Tasty nugget, isn't it?
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| 121 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 16:05
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Jag Mith, I assume the Liberals here are for a complete pullout, I would love to hear otherwise if I am mistaking.
Why should those of us who were against the war before it started, and were very vocally against it here, even have to discuss the consequences of a "pull out"?
That's your problem.
It's the fools who were for the war who have that dilema to solve.
Solve it while you rob your children and grandchildren's future earnings to pay for it since you are unwilling to pay for it now.
My hands are clean, no blood or guilt dripping from my hands, why is it my concern whether or not we "pull out" of a war that I marched against?
And for the record we aren't all socialists.
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| 122 | Baldwin
ID: 473421019
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 17:33
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How many weeks would it have taken to kill Ho Chi Min?
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| 123 | Baldwin
ID: 473421019
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 17:35
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Nerve
All four options, go to war, don't go to war, stay, leave...mean a different set of thousands dies, so pick your option and wash your hands.
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| 124 | Perm Dude
ID: 14352118
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 17:38
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Some options are clearly better than others. We certainly now know that the cost (lives and dollars) of both being in Iraq and staying there is far too high. Our choice now is whether to have American lives killed as well as Iraqi ones. Because it is clear that our being there is, at absolutely best, is a wash.
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| 125 | Baldwin
ID: 473421019
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 17:51
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Take a guess how many Iraquis Saddam would have killed had he been unmolested and you can put them on your hands, PD.
I am reminded of the time Saddam's police tortured the first name out of someone before he died. He then had everyone from that town with that first name tortured to death, surely getting someone elses' first name in the process. And so it goes. Are the neocons more or less concerned about human life than PD? They say for neocons it's always 1943 and the world has a duty to see to it that the phrase 'never again' actually means something. Can't say I rspect PD's happiness with the Viet Nam death camps more than I respect them.
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| 126 | Perm Dude
ID: 14352118
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 18:12
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Yeah--nice. The guy who believes we should stop throwing lives away is advocating death camps. Maybe all the strawmen you've been building since 2003 has caused you to run out of good straw.
Baldwin: "Black is white!" "Democrats are the War Party!" "I hate you in Jesus' name!"
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| 127 | Baldwin
ID: 473421019
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 18:27
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You are pleased as punch with the situation in NV, and you said so. Live with it.
Obviously you weren't thinking about the death camps when you said that. And you try long and hard to put out of your mind what Saddam was doing to his own people, and what NK is doing in their concentration camps, and on and on.
I know the solution is God's Kingdom so I don't vote to solve those things but If I didn't know the solution I wonder how I could be as hands off as you and Nerve.
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| 128 | Perm Dude
ID: 14352118
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 18:45
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Er, no, I cannot "say so" when someone so obviously misses what I said. Idiot. No one is asking you to vote to solve anything but we do wonder why you are talking about them. Trying to solve them by talking but lack the balls to vote?
Christians in Iraq miss Saddam “I heartily believe that we were living better under the old regime. No one could threaten the Christians then.”
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| 129 | Baldwin
ID: 473421019
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 18:52
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As I said someone suffers all four options.
As far as 'no balls' goes, being neutral in Nazi Germany meant the guillotine for draft age JW's. When all they had to do was sign a piece of paper renouncing their faith to escape the blade. Where were the 'peace loving' Catholics back then?
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| 130 | Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 19:45
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How many weeks would it have taken to kill Ho Chi Min?
What possible justification could there have been for the US to kill Ho Chi Minh?
Because he defeated the French who felt that their "colony" would revive the glory of Napoleon after their embarrassing performance in WW2?
Because he disagreed with the US cancelling unification elections which would have seen him elected in a landslide?
Because he refused to recognize the super minority Catholic elites(lackeys of the French colonialists)appointed by the US, who immediately set up death camps for the Buddhist majority? At least the Diems weren't communists, right?
It's amazing the moral relativity expressed by those who are quick to define others in those terms.
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| 131 | Baldwin
ID: 473421019
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 20:10
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Uncle Ho basically ordered an entire generation of Viet Namese to perform suicide. How he was less a legitimate target than the poor troops is beyond me.
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| 132 | Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 20:29
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Uncle Ho basically ordered an entire generation of Viet Namese to perform suicide.
You're right, Baldwin. Ho should have just accepted Western subjugation like any good "boy" should do.
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| 133 | Baldwin
ID: 473421019
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 20:44
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You actually think they died for something worthwhile, do you? Deathcamps and becoming the poorest nation on the planet hold more appeal to you than they do to me.
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| 134 | Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 20:48
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You mean death camps like Mi Lai? I didn't think so.
As with most foreign issues when the US policy is whack, you tend to ignore the facts that don't fit your ideology.
Like I said earlier, moral relativity becomes you.
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| 135 | Baldwin
ID: 473421019
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 20:58
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Mai Lai was an aberation. Death camps are official government policy in VN. And China today. And N. Korea. And things have improved in Russia but the gulag system is still in place. The world is just full of the stuff everyone said 'never again' towards.
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| 136 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 21:51
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Baldwin the pimp
so pick your option and wash your hands. Take a guess how many Iraquis Saddam would have killed had he been unmolested and you can put them on your hands,
Saddam, the pimp the USA CIA put in power?
The pimp who Bush SR. sent chemical weapons to when he was VP?
Please Baldwin, you are Lady Godiva marching on a horse with no clothes.
Saddam was put in power by the people this "Marxist" professor is outing.
You are the pimp Baldwin, Saddam is your boy, the satan figure in your mind was put in power, and sent weapons of mass destruction by the very punks you are supporting...GET A CLUE.
Of course it doesn't fit into your grand "end game" hallucination.
You are perplexed by me because you know I am right???
Who is really riding the horse Baldwin? Maybe someone you defend?
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| 137 | Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Fri, Apr 11, 2008, 23:42
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Mai Lai was an aberation.
Aberations aren't immoral?
Were Agent Orange and napalm aberations? Do you know after the first million tons of defoliage bombs or after?
And your attempt to portray the Vietnamese reeducation camps as death camps, as if millions were sent to the gas chambers ala Auschwitz, is gross propoganda. Disgusting as they were, they had no relation to actual death camps.
The re-education camp system, as it developed in the South, was both larger and more complex than its counterpart in the North. Three types of camps were created to serve three purposes--short-term re-education, long-term re-education, and permanent incarceration. The system was also organized into five levels.
There were two levels of short-term re-education. The first was the study camp or day study center which was located in or near a major urban center, often in a public park, and allowed attendees to return home each night. Courses, chiefly lectures to "teach socialism and unlearn the old ways lasted about thirty days." They were attended mostly by southern proletarians and juvenile delinquents. These level-one camps, which instructed perhaps 500,000 people, were the most common kind in the South in the first few years after the end of the Second Indochina War, but were phased out near the end of the 1970s. The level-two camps were similar in purpose to level one camps, but they required full-time attendance for three to six months, during which time the inmate was obliged to supply his own food. Security was minimal, and it was possible simply to walk away from the camp, although later arrest was likely. During the 1970s, there were some 300 of these level-two camps in the South, with at least 200,000 inmates. Some level-two camps remained in the 1980s, although most had been phased out.
Long-term re-education was undertaken at level-three camps. Termed the collective reformatory, level three had thought reform as its purpose. Whereas re-education of individuals in the first two levels of camps was regarded chiefly as a matter of informing them of the "truth" and making them aware of facts about the new social order, reforming the thought of those in level-three camps required a process of deeper examination and analysis. The orientation was both more psychological and more intellectual. Although the inmate was apt to be better educated, and thus less susceptible to manipulation, than most Vietnamese, the system considered him salvageable. The level-three camps at their most prevalent, in the late 1970s, were found in every province in southern Vietnam and dealt with at least 50,000 persons. Although the camps were still in use both in the North and South, by 1987 the number had decreased.
The third type of re-education camp, the socialist-reform camp, was intended for permanent incarceration, and re-education involved indoctrination and forced labor. When these camps were first established in the South, individuals were assigned according to the probable time that each person's re-education would require. Level-four camp inmates were said to require three years and level-five camp inmates, five years. For this reason the two were commonly termed "three-year-sentence" and "five-year-sentence" camps. Their true purpose, it became apparent eventually, was to incarcerate certain southern individuals--including educators, legislators, province chiefs, writers, and supreme court judges--until the South was judged stable enough to permit their release. In 1987 at least 15,000 were still incarcerated in level-four and level-five camps. When the three-year or five-year period expired, they were simply sentenced to three or five more years of re-education.
link
Bad things happen in Civil Wars. I suppose you could call Andersonville and Elmira death camps, since they would better define that term than the Viet reeducation camps, which would more closely mirror Order 11.
In addition to camps for captured soldiers, the North also established concentration camps for civilian populations considered hostile to the Federal government. Union General Thomas Ewing issued his infamous Order Number 11 in August 1863, whereby large numbers of civilians in Missouri were relocated into what were called "posts."
In Plain Speaking, "an Oral Biography of Harry S. Truman," the former President tells what happened:
Everybody, almost the entire population of Jackson County and Vernon and Cass and Bates counties, all of them were depopulated, and the people had to stay in posts.
They called them posts, but what they were, they were concentration camps. And most of the people were moved in such a hurry that they had to leave all their goods and their chattels in their houses. Then the Federal soldiers came in and took everything that was left and set fire to the houses.
That didn't go down very well with the people in these parts; putting people in concentration camps in particular didn't. (pp 78-79)
President Truman's grandmother loaded what belongings she could into an oxcart and, with six of her children, among them the President's mother, made the journey to a "post" in Kansas City. Martha Ellen Truman vividly remembered that trek until she died at the age of 94.
And what of Saddam? He was toppled 5 years ago, and executed. Why, then, do we continue to wreak havoc among the poorest of Iraq's citizens with
devastating air strikes?
Upstairs, Sabah Raheem's family sat on the bed next to his. The skin on his face was black from the burning shrapnel of a U.S. airstrike. On his chest were black craters where metal pieces had gouged his flesh. His left eye was gone, along with one of his legs. Around him were four other men with missing limbs.
His parents were at home, mourning his two brothers, both killed in an airstrike.
"We haven't told him about his brothers yet," said his uncle, Saad Naathoul, 39. "He's just came out of the coma."
Raheem's chest heaved and his eyelids fluttered. Earlier that day his 8-month-old daughter came with his wife to see him. She cried in fright at his blackened skin and missing leg. A large piece of shrapnel wedged in his stomach couldn't be removed; bandages covered the area.
"A missile hit the house," Naathoul said. "It's a family of six, and last year they lost one in a car accident. Now two are gone and then him. The situation speaks for itself."
He waved toward Raheem's bed.
"They said there was a very small chance he would live," Naathoul said. "But by the grace of God he is getting better."
Nearby, 16-year-old Karrar Ali Hussein's chest also heaved, because a bullet pierced his side and remained inside him. He was playing soccer, his father said, when a U.S. sniper shot him.
Downstairs, Ammar Ensayer looked at his father in worry. He was shot in a marketplace; he, too, says it was an American military sniper.
"We are an oppressed people, but what shall we do?" he said. "We can do nothing."
Nearby, Jabar Abdul Ridha was stoic in his small, shabby home in a narrow alley of Sadr City. His wife, Kareema Hafout, and daughter Nisrene Jabar were killed in a U.S. airstrike last week.
He came home last Wednesday and found them dead. It was 5:30 p.m. The glass in the two top rooms of the home was shattered, and the glass frame around the portrait of the revered grandson of the prophet Hussein was cracked.
Remind me why this, like the Agent Orange and napalm attacks in Vietnam, is a moral use of our superior military power. Remind me again how The world is just full of the stuff everyone said 'never again' towards.
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| 138 | TB
Sherpa
ID: 031811922
Sat, Apr 12, 2008, 01:54
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OT:
You know what I love about these old threads that get pulled back up? Look at the quality of discussion from 2003 and look at the quality from the last couple couple days. You'd never know it was some of the same people if they didn't have the same handle. Just an observation.
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| 139 | nerveclinic
ID: 36536204
Sat, Apr 12, 2008, 12:17
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TB Look at the quality of discussion from 2003 and look at the quality from the last couple couple days.
TB has it gotten better or worse?
8-}
Also would you expand on your observations with more specifics, I'd be sincerely curious to hear your thoughts.
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| 140 | Seattle Zen
ID: 29241823
Sat, Apr 12, 2008, 12:25
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It's just like your stereotypical marriage. It's all love and kisses for the first few years, polite disagreements, actual compromises.
Then, after years of "putting up" with superstitions, annoying "quirks", and obstinance, you start to lose your patience.
It really falls apart when your in-laws' demon-seed children start spending WAY too much time trolling around your house.
Yes, it makes you harken back to the Good Ol' Days.
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| 141 | nerveclinic
ID: 36536204
Sat, Apr 12, 2008, 14:01
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The pimp who Bush SR. sent chemical weapons to when he was VP?
I want to correct this before someone calls me on it. He didn't send Saddam chemical weapons. They did allow high tech equipment to go to him that could have been used in a nuclear bomb. The administration was called on it and still insisted it go through.
I've documented the newspaper articles discussing this years ago but no longer have access here in Dubai.
Oh the best part? They allowed this stuff to go through AFTER he had gassed the Kurds.
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| 142 | Baldwin
ID: 473421019
Sun, Apr 13, 2008, 12:00
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Nerve
I am truly mystified at all this pimp talk. I haven't gotten a single one of your 'pimp' references all thread. Please specify the client/prostitute/manager mr. when you say these things, Nerve.
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| 143 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 14:57
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Baldwin
You are a "pimp" for the war machine. Your whole premise was outrage at this professor who is anti war.
You spend much of the thread either defending war or saying your just not worried at the slaughter because it's God's will.
Then you remind us about how evil Saddam was conveniently ignoring the fact that as usually it was the CIA, Military Industrial complex who helped him gain power. The very people the professor is complaining about.
Therefore you are a pimp for the War machine.
I thought it was obvious and I would guess most people knew what I meant even if they agree with you.
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| 144 | Jag
ID: 1632499
Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 16:42
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Baldwin, I guess you are not as hip as Master Pimp Nerveshizzle.
We would never had to back Saddam against Iran if Jimmy Carter had never been elected president. We are still suffering and will for generations to come from a Liberal President and a Left-wing Congress. The question now is how to deal with Iraq today. A complete withdrawl is out of the question, except for the most politically naive or insane. Militias, corruption and religious sects make for an almost impossible challenge. It will take a president with problem solving capabilities with a firm grasp of reality to deal with the problem properly.
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| 145 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 18:13
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Jag
The question now is how to deal with Iraq today. A complete withdrawl is out of the question, except for the most politically naive or insane. Militias, corruption and religious sects make for an almost impossible challenge.
Ha, Naive?
Those of us who marched/spoke out against the war before it started predicted everything you are cataloging before the first bullet.
Who is naive Jag, maybe the simpletons who were conned like you?
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| 146 | biliruben
ID: 33258140
Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 18:49
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You should head on over to Baghdad, Jag.
You can pitch in, and it's probably not too late to get a bouquet of flowers in gratitude for the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis we've killed and maimed.
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| 147 | Boldwin
ID: 463471413
Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 20:52
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He's going even further back, Jag, and saying the CIA installed Saddam.
Not entirly sure how true that it is. But I have always said the power elite are a big incestuous occult family the world over and they do those sorts of things. Even if true I still cheer when Saddam's torture cells and rape rooms are cleared out. Then again the new tennent's payback is nearly as bad.
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| 148 | Boldwin
ID: 463471413
Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 21:04
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Really Nerve's point isn't all he makes it out to be.
The Bush family helped put Hitler in power. What were you supposed to do with that knowlege back then? Not go to war? Be ok with him in power? Not cheer when the concentration camps were liberated? How would knowing that have altered America's course? I want to hear Nerve's recommendations to everyone back then who came across that info.
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| 149 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 02:07
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He's going even further back, Jag, and saying the CIA installed Saddam.
Not entirly sure how true that it is.
Baldwin I have posted quotes from the head of the CIA at the time explaining why they put Saddam in power in this forum. Do some searches on Google, I'm not going to dig around and find it again. He even made comments about understanding they were dancing with the devil.
What were you supposed to do with that knowlege back then? Not go to war? Be ok with him in power?
Perhaps your missing the point. We put these people in power with the hope they will screw up so we CAN go to war. War is good, we make money, we occupy lands, we make the rules once it's finished. (Japan, Germany)
Again why did we give Saddam technology that can be used to build nuclear bombs after he had gassed the Kurds. (An act you often shed tears over)
Out of Darkness comes Light
Out of Chaos comes Order.
The Order.
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| 150 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 02:26
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Baldwin careful...
He's going even further back, Jag, and saying the CIA installed Saddam.
Not entirly sure how true that it is
Not sure huh?
Here's my post which I will link to.
San Mateo County Times Associated Press article from today, Thursday April 24th. An AP article from today...here are a few excerpts...
James Critchfield, CIA recruiter of Nazis, Soviets, Baathists, dies...
Critchfield was best known in intelligence circles as the CIA's liaison to the Gehlen Organization, a group of former Third Reich intelligence and military officials recruited by the Army because of their purported knowledge of the Soviet Union.
That group turned out to be tainted with fabricators, double agents and war criminals, though Critchfield said it was instrumental in building a defense and intelligence network for West Germany.
Critchfield himself drew parallels between the moral compromises made after World War II with his suggestion in the early 1960s that the U.S. support the Baath Party, which staged a 1963 coup against the Iraqi government that the CIA believed was falling under Soviet influence.
"You have to understand the context of the time and the scope of the threat we were facing," Critchfield said. "That's what I say to people who say, 'You guys in the CIA created Saddam Hussein.'"
...The work of the Gehlen Organization resonates to this day. It has been the focus of a task force created to oversee the 1999 Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act, which has resulted in the biggest declassification of U.S. intelligence records in history.
The task force is delving into the degree to which U.S. intelligence gave war crimes suspects jobs. For his part, Critchfield argued that the benefits outweighed the moral compromises.
The very next post Baldwin you said...
One other factor here Nerve. I spent almost a decade in denial over this stuff I kept unearthing until it just became overwhelmingly obvious.
and in the same thread you said...
Nerveclinic understands the guys at the top better than anyone here including me.
They operate by thesis, antithesis and synthesis.
link
Short memory, it took me 10 minutes to find.
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| 151 | Jag
ID: 1632499
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 10:53
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Nerve's political stance is along the same lines as John Dickinson, Neville Chamberlain and Jimmy Carter, all of whom history has shown to have little foresight.
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| 152 | Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 11:16
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Just when I think Jag couldn't possibly top himself with a post more irrelevant or less thought-provoking than his usual tripe, he suprises me with one like this.
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| 153 | Boldwin
ID: 463471413
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 11:31
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Nerve
I'm nowhere saying Saddam wasn't supported by the CIA. However I don't know if we can say the Baath party wouldn't have prevailed without the CIA. Further you are still not answering how this changes anything with respect to the correct way to deal with Saddam decades later.
When Saddam rocket attacked our naval vessal should we have said, 'well he's our boy, let's overlook it'?
When he was organizing an assassination of Bush Sr, should we have said, 'well he's our boy, we helped install him. let's overlook it'?
When he gassed his own people and specifically the Kurds whom the CIA had secretly encouraged and worked with for decades should we have said, 'well he's our boy, we helped install him. let's overlook it'?
When he went about slaughtering the shiites after the first gulf war after we encouraged them to overthrow Saddam should we have said, 'well he's our boy, we helped install him. let's overlook it'?
Yes Saddam is part of the same international fraternity. So what? What exactly does that change about foriegn policy?
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| 154 | Perm Dude
ID: 423591313
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 11:42
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When he was organizing an assassination of Bush Sr, should we have said, 'well he's our boy, we helped install him. let's overlook it'?
Actually, we not only didn't overlook it, Clinton sent missiles into Baghdad, blowing up their intelligence headquarters.
The fact that the assassination attempt might have been an urban legend on par with Saddam's WMD is probably something for the history books.
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| 155 | Boldwin
ID: 463471413
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 11:59
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PD
You missed the point.
Did Saddam's supposedly having been installed by the CIA enter into the calculations and should it have?
Nerve keeps waving that around like it trumps all reason and I want to nail down, so what? Exactly what does that change?
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| 156 | Perm Dude
ID: 423591313
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 13:41
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The point is that the CIA may have installed (or helped) Saddam and whether that went into the calculations to bomb them in retaliation for the intelligence about the plot?
Your point seems to be "it didn't, or if it did we wouldn't know it)--if that's the case, I certainly agree.
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| 157 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 15:03
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Baldwin
You've changed my friend, I've seen it coming for a long time...you've changed.
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| 158 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 15:09
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Jag
Don't you have a turnip truck you can go fall off of?
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| 159 | truthsabitchinnit
ID: 4311112
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 15:45
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When Saddam rocket attacked our naval vessal should we have said, 'well he's our boy, let's overlook it'?
That's the treatment reserved for the Israeli, for this particular kind of crime.
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| 160 | Boldwin
ID: 463471413
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 16:55
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Don't have an answer, Nerve?
I've never understood what your plan of action was in the face of what you know. Was it basically figuring out the right time to surrender?
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| 161 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 17:37
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Baldwin
I've never understood what your plan of action was in the face of what you know. Was it basically figuring out the right time to surrender?
Huh? Surrender?
My plan of action is not to be duped.
Not to be a yes boy.
Let it rest Baldwin, we are on different planets.
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| 162 | Boldwin
ID: 463471413
Tue, Apr 15, 2008, 17:59
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Your object is to know...ok we are both a long way down that path. Why dodge the next logical question? What is the solution to the situation if it exists? I say there is one but I don't get a whiff of one from you.
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| 163 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Wed, Apr 16, 2008, 01:44
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What is the solution to the situation if it exists?
Each day you are alive try to do more good to others then harm. That's my solution.
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| 164 | Boldwin
ID: 463471413
Wed, Apr 16, 2008, 08:02
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They quake.
Will they even bother giving you the '1984' treatment? You'll try doing good while caving and take their oath, is what you mean to say.
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| 165 | nerveclinic
ID: 105222
Wed, Apr 16, 2008, 08:24
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Baldwin
Will they even bother giving you the '1984' treatment? You'll try doing good while caving and take their oath, is what you mean to say.
Huh? Have you gotten into Zen's bag?
What oath?
OH 666, revelations...your confusing me with you Baldwin.
Baldwin
Did Saddam's supposedly having been installed by the CIA enter into the calculations and should it have?
Your missing the whole point.
The premise of the thread is you are red baiting this professor who is highly critical of the US war machine.
You also tell us how bad Saddam was as a kind of defense.
Why don't you understand my pont?
The same people the professor is criticizing and you are defending helped put this "monster" in power.
If it were an isolated case one might chalk it up to a simple mistake, but I've run down the list before.
Bin Laden got his start with aid from the CIA.
Noriega
Franco
Marcos
There's more I'm too bored to come up with.
What is so hard to understand about these people you defend.
Frankly I am just bored and would just assume let this die.
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| 166 | Boldwin
ID: 463471413
Wed, Apr 16, 2008, 10:05
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Do you think I feel a kindred spirit to a family who helped put Hitler in power? Are you nuts?
If I am happy the communists in VN took Pol Pot out of power does that make me a communist?
This is only slightly convoluted. It really isn't that hard to figure out, Nerve. Sometimes bad people accomplish an imperfect good, even if without the right motives or methods.
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